And just for you all to know...Jai had talked about taking the next step to a more serious competiton....5v5, 7v7 or w/e and it had been discussed way back when we had our page made( which btw...Kelly....can you please msg me to talk about the technical stuff that needs to be done on pg :) )But until now there had been no time to persue the suggestion. This would have been the next logic step as breakers were settled into their interlg mode and so was BP.

Ok....so breakers dont like a 2 v 2....thats fine...people are different ...but why couldnt you just come out and say so without all this ?
We all know each other and play in each others lgs, just be upfront...no worries...no hassle :)
Jan

[Post automatically censored for profanity]

• Re: 2v2 View
    by kellyhero2003 on December 05, 2004 at 11:15:21
  
  This isn't about being overly competitive. It's not about the MLP (except that it familiarizes people with the team format). It's not that BNR doesn't like 2 v 2's, or doesn't want to play with BP anymore, or anything of the sort. None of that could be farther from the truth!

  When Red 'n Jai came up with the idea of the two leagues competing, that's exactly what it was supposed to be...two leagues getting together to have some friendly, competitive tourneys. And if new friendships/bonds were formed along the way, so much the better. The whole thing was to benefit both leagues, both of which were struggling at the time.

  When it became apparent that the 2 v 2 Swiss was not working out like it was supposed to, the BNR staff got together and tried to come up with a solution that would solve most of the things that people from both sides seemed to be unhappy about. That's how we came up with the team format idea.

  1. The 2 v 2 swiss couldn't really be league vs league, for all the reasons already expressed. More often than not, we were playing our own players. In the last 2v2 swiss, my partner and I never even played a single BP team!

  A team format would truly be league vs league, which is what most of us expected in the first place. Having said that, there's no reason, in the spirit of things, that the teams couldn't occasionally consist of members from both leagues. If there are more players from one league than another, the team with fewer players could opt to have some players play additional games to make up the difference.

  2. The 2 v 2 swiss was boring to some of us, Breakers and BP'ers alike. Sitting in a room where you can't chat for all the spamming and scrolling makes for a very boring tourney if you have a bye or while waiting for the other games to finish. Even when the tourney was played in the Ballroom, it was boring because people don't chat much in the lobby while they're playing. Speaking of rooms, some players from BNR refuse to go to the ARN room because of the bad language 'n spamming. It just isn't an enjoyable experience for them. (Yes, we've gotten quite spoiled in our little hole in the wall.) That means that every other week, they don't get to play in the 2 v 2.

  With a team format, having everyone on the table gives everyone a chance to sit back, relax and chat while 2 people are playing at a time. There's more of a chance of camaraderie (sp?) for everyone. Also, it means that we can chat uninterrupted by spammers and those who are offended by bad language and ASL?? can just minimize the lobby.

  3. Invariably, there was always someone who had to be left out because they couldn't find a partner. Many times the tourney started way late while someone scrounged around for a partner. If a partner couldn't be found, that person couldn't play.

  In the team format, the number of players on the teams can be adjusted as people come in and want to join. If there is an odd number, the extra person isn't excluded from playing unless no one else comes in to make it even again. If there are more players from one league than the other, what's to say the captain of the team with fewer players can't replay some of his/her players? There's a lot more flexibility in the team format than other types of tourneys.

  4. The 2 v 2 swiss consisted of 5 rounds. Not everyone likes the swiss format. If someone had to leave, or got booted, or for some reason couldn't play all 5 rounds, that meant their partner either had to play alone for the rest of the tourney, or drop out as well. Neither option was fair to the remaining partner.

  Not being able to stay for a full 5 round swiss doesn't mean not getting to play at all. The team format gives players the ability to play even if they know they won't be able to stay for the whole match. If someone knows they will have to leave early, they can ask their captain to play them early in the match. That way they can leave and their not letting their partner or team down.

  The thing that really grinds my gears, is that some people, who are only going by "what they heard", and who don't know the whole story, are trying to turn this into a controversy. That was not, and is not the intention of the staff from either league.

  I'm sure I can speak for the rest of the Breakers' staff when I say that we would gladly continue the Saturday night BNR/BP games if some kind of compromise can be reached. Personally, I think the offer to alternate weeks between the 2v2 DE and the team match was the best compromise put on the table. I do hope something can be worked out and the relationship between BNR and BP will carry on.
  

  • Re: 2v2 View
      by redhot_2oo3 on December 05, 2004 at 10:43:02
    
    Talk about a storm in a friggin teacup! sheesh, ok...

    : Jai thought the 2 v 2 would be a fun thing for both lgs , a change of pace in both lgs and benefiting BOTH lgs and Dave agreed. To date ...it had been a success. All people were having fun. It was just a friendly rivalry between lgs and not a serious thing.

    Well, all people WERE having fun, to a degree, but the format was not allowing a genuine contest between the leagues. So we tried to figure out an alternative, e.g. the match format. I suggested to Jai that as it was our week to host, we could try a match format and see how it went.

    
    : When Dave said breakers were unhappy with the 2 v 2 and wanted an itl type thing....we never REFUSED. Because people were looking forward to the 2 v 2 to kick back and chill ..Jai said Yes we can have a 5 v 5 but on another day. The reason is..the 2 v 2 is what people enjoy and look forward to. BP members were asked about it and they wanted to continue the 2 v 2 which we did last saturday and today.So to say we refused to even entertain the idea is ....well total bollox.

    Correct me if i'm wrong, but to reject an invitation to come to BNR and play in the Match format as an experiment is a refusal in my book. Just becasue we played a 2v2 with BP for a few weeks doesn't make it carved in stone forevermore. Change can be a good thing. I was surprised when NONE of the BP's felt daring enough to try it, even though Jan and Jai had previously told me that would probably be the case. But you know, that's fine. Peeps will play whatever they enjoy playing best.

    : You all know Jai ...you know that he would never refuse an interleague type thing as he has a passion for them...and neither would some of our players.But it is not for everyone and that was explained. Jais suggestion was something on an mlp day as a warm up....or a fun stress reliever after.
    : That idea was refused by Breakers but you wont see us complain about that in forum.People are free to do what they want.

    Jai wanted us to continue with the 2v2 on Saturdays, but to add a 5v5 in the week. This would not have solved the problem. It seems better to me to change the 2v2 format to one that's more acceptable to all. So yes... (shock, horror) I did refuse to continue with a tourney format that some people were not happy with. BUT, we didn't just abandon the BNR vs BP nite, we wanted to try the match format to see how it went down in an attempt to find an alternative format for Saturday nights that would please everybody.

    
    : As I see it , this whole thing, which was an idea from Jai to bring more fun to both lgs, has been blown out of all proportion and become just a topic for a ^@*!# session.

    This is a forum - peeps talk about things. I'm happy they do. Nobody is beechin are they?, they just state opinions.

    : And just for you all to know...Jai had talked about taking the next step to a more serious competiton....5v5, 7v7 or w/e and it had been discussed way back when we had our page made( which btw...Kelly....can you please msg me to talk about the technical stuff that needs to be done on pg :) )But until now there had been no time to persue the suggestion. This would have been the next logic step as breakers were settled into their interlg mode and so was BP.

    : Ok....so breakers dont like a 2 v 2....thats fine...people are different ...but why couldnt you just come out and say so without all this ?

    Breakers actually love 2v2s, and the series playing against BP was a success. If there was a way to make the pairings come out right, I daresay we'd still be playing the 2v2's.
    There seems to be an impression that BNR drew a line in the sand and said 'that's it, no more 2v2 with BP'. That is not the case. I spoke with Jan and Jai at some length and tried to explain why a number of peeps felt that we needed to either find a way to make the 2v2 a true contest, or find another format. If we had enough people, we could even have done a 2v2 match format.
    Yes, it was a friendly tourney, but whats the point of calling it BNR vs BP if your going to be playing against you own team-mates a lot of the time?

    The format we decided to TRY, was a match format. We tried it - we like it - Its staying. If BP want to take part, that's great, if not, that's fine too. AS for the midweek 5v5, I understand that that may now not happen because we don't continue with the 2v2 - so be it.

    I personally think that if the BP's had tried the match format, they may well have liked it. If it had been a total failure, at least we would known. We tried it twice now between ourselves, and it has been a success.

    I seem to be saying the same stuff over and over, and now I'm totally sick of defending why the 2v2 against BP has stopped. We have members who are in both leagues, and as BP are continuing with the 2v2 on Saturdays nights, it would seem to me that people can take part in whichever event they like best.

    Everybody's happy, right?