Before i make this complaint I would like to excuse myself to everyone who reads it - again drawing on the negatives although I am being light hearted about this particular matter.
Also let me quickly defend myself from possible abuse I may get from this - Sub you of all people should that I dont mind losing a game of hearts, I'm not that kind of person or player. It's the manner in which I repeatedly seem to lose to you that I will see to not happening again.

Unfortunately Sub, I cast a BIG question mark over your 4x4 play etiquette, and I will not play any 4x4 game with you ever again (unless forced to by challenge) until I get a public appology and also you acknowledge your fault. I doubt that this will happen though because I believe that it's a clash between our playing styles and/or personalities. I am not personally attacking you !

Anyone may quote me on this and weather I'm right or wrong is IRRELEVANT to me because it's what I believe about 4x4 play - I WILL NOT CHANGE !
"DO NOT TALK ABOUT CARDS DURING A HAND ! WAIT UNTIL THE END OF A HAND TO MAKE COMMENT ON CARDS."
Sub mate help me ! That is 3 times now....

***Example 1***
I made a public post on this forum on 6/22/03 so will not go into fetail about it again. On this occasion I excuse your mouth with ease because, who wouldn't (besides me) blow up in the middle of a hand after being passed the Ks in front of low? Sub I don't want to get all emotional with you, but I did appreciate your reply post where at the end of it you said "look forward to our next game". Which is why I would herby like to say to you now, I look forward to our next game (1x1)! Bots dont have ears and are my friends. You can say whatever you flippin want there pal, geez even abuse me there if you want, see if I care ! ;) Also Sub, appart from these minor indescrepancies I believe that your not a bad bloke and a good character to have around the place - have noticed you been quiet the last few days tho, hope everything is okay.

***Example 2***

Last game of hand between Me, subform, Heart_Bomb & a 4th player. Sub had a narrow lead from me (2nd place) and ate the Qs. Sub then leads a high heart which I had none of (I either passed him my only one or threw off onto him earlier, I cant remember but that is beside the point). As soon as I didn't cover his high heart lead, the Mouth begins... "Three cover your passes" etc etc etc - I wish I had a copy of the chat dialog now. When Sub starts with these comments during a hand I usually just say somthing like "hurry up and play it out Sub".
That never happens tho, the game slows right down whilst Sub tells me the reasons why my play sux which obviously upsets his long term friends as well. Sub ends up mooning with some obvious kind hearted help from Heart_Bomb.

***Example 3*** From yesturday (the final nail in the coffin)
Last hand of game between me, subform, Patton_leader & a 4th player. Again Sub and I were equal low and subform eats the Qs. Again Sub the procedes to lead 8 of hearts which I deliberately duck to give him more points. Typically the mouth then starts to shoot off yet again...

subform> three you should have covered
4th player> I Can't believe that low did not cover that
ThreeDT> Sub just play the hand pls
subform> a typical three manouver

Let me make the rest of the hand clear here, Sub had all the diamonds, the ace of hearts only, and the 3 of clubs which should have been his down fall. On the 2nd last trick Patton_Leader decides to throw the last club for Sub's next lead and hand him the moon which was weird because if he had stopped it was still a close game. I suppose I have to Give Patton the benefit of doubt there, but cant help to think that things would have been different with an introverted Subbie.

The thing that upsets me as much or even more than this type of play is the unneccesary negativety placed upon my shoulders after the game. Sub I believe that the game is called "hearts" for a reson. Why not have one for a change? These tactics that you use are the sign of true bad sportsmanship, I dont mind losing, but I do like that.

I am not saying that I am more popular or have more firends than you - Compare both our games played for gods sake.
I am not pretending that I know more about the fine points of "lowman" play than you either.
What I am pretending is that I enjoy you telling me what to do and what not to do in the middle of hands instead of waiting till the beginning of next hand, or even better, the end of the game!

After our game yesturday which you won by way of moon again you said "guess I got lucky there"
Good luck? nah - good friends and a big mouth.

Put yourself in my shoes just for a second...
What if I played a game with subform, Heart_Bomb & Patton_Leader? Would I feel like this is going to be a competitive game if we were all tied at 90 points all? Well the answer is NO - I would need some seriously lucky cards for this to be the case, but dont worry this will never happen even by way of challenge. I'de much rather the rung in rank.

From your friend,

ThreeDT

• Re: Hey subform guess what? I quit !!! View
    by ThreeDT on July 23, 2003 at 00:52:52 PDT
  
  I am sorry for the constant complaints Snubbie. I will not reply to any more posts on this subject from now, but I do have one last word which might make things a bit more clear from my perspective.

  In my previous post I forgot to mention somthing RE: '***Example 2***'. After the game in which Heart_Bomb helped subform to moon (BTW I dont blame him) Heart_Bomb left the lobby immediately and I think it was only me sub and some1 else left in the room:

  subform> three you can understand why bomber played that way can't you?
  threedt> yeah but GEEZ, what about your mouth in middle of hand?
  subform> nope

  Sub I can comprehend somthing like this happening once, but after the 3rd time it sorta gets on my nerves! Of course I give Patton_Leader the benefit of doubt in our last game. He held a high heart instead of 9c, but cant help to wonder what might have been.

  Don't worry I dont feel the need to avoid you, it's no big drama for me to be the 4th player to sit at a table (it's what i want). I thank you Sub for at least listening and trying to understand where I'm coming from, and I look forward to our next game of 1x1.

  Regards,

  3DT.
  

• Re: Hey subform guess what? I quit !!! View
    by NYpipefitter on July 22, 2003 at 19:06:58 PDT
  
  LEt me be a bit harsh on you. YOu don't like the fact that you got greedy and subform said something to you. I said something to you too and I dont even like subform. The guys an arrogant lump if you ask me. He plays pretty much for himslef and thats about it. You think your the first person to get lambasted by subdork? pfft, catch up to me will ya.

  But I'll tell yuo this. You had the chance to not only stop subform but also make yourself about a 13 point favorite for low. To me that was the dummest thing Ive ever seen especially since subby was showing you all the way that he was protecting high cards. I'll admit any of the three of us could have took that hearts trick but none of us did. If I or patton take that heart trick we become high while you stay low. Lowman is a game best played when everyone is close. By forcing you to cover the moon we keep you close in the score making it possible for anyone to win in the last hand. Thats when this game is fun.

  But you got greedy. You choose to make a stand and attempt to run away with the score while you expected us to cover your perverbial butt. Patton choose to keep a high heart instead of a low club last card and I would have done the same thing. Theres backs on the cards, you do realise that dont you?

  As for the being harsh on you. You come on this message board and cry and whine "I'm quitting" Thats your answer for solving a problem? Your quitting. Go ahead and quit then. I won't miss ya and I'm sure no one else will either. If you want a resolve to the problem contact the mangers and ask them how they feel about subbies big mouth. YOu'll get about as far as I did. If you wanna whine and threaten to quit go to ladder room 2. You'll fit right in there with slotfreak and her fag boyfiend.
  
  

  • Re: Hey subform guess what? I quit !!! View
      by rat_1 on July 23, 2003 at 18:43:05 PDT
    
    ROFL...well NY I surely agree with your slotfreak comment...bout the first time in months I have agreed with anything you said....keep up the good work
    Rat

    : LEt me be a bit harsh on you. YOu don't like the fact that you got greedy and subform said something to you. I said something to you too and I dont even like subform. The guys an arrogant lump if you ask me. He plays pretty much for himslef and thats about it. You think your the first person to get lambasted by subdork? pfft, catch up to me will ya.

    : But I'll tell yuo this. You had the chance to not only stop subform but also make yourself about a 13 point favorite for low. To me that was the dummest thing Ive ever seen especially since subby was showing you all the way that he was protecting high cards. I'll admit any of the three of us could have took that hearts trick but none of us did. If I or patton take that heart trick we become high while you stay low. Lowman is a game best played when everyone is close. By forcing you to cover the moon we keep you close in the score making it possible for anyone to win in the last hand. Thats when this game is fun.

    : But you got greedy. You choose to make a stand and attempt to run away with the score while you expected us to cover your perverbial butt. Patton choose to keep a high heart instead of a low club last card and I would have done the same thing. Theres backs on the cards, you do realise that dont you?

    : As for the being harsh on you. You come on this message board and cry and whine "I'm quitting" Thats your answer for solving a problem? Your quitting. Go ahead and quit then. I won't miss ya and I'm sure no one else will either. If you want a resolve to the problem contact the mangers and ask them how they feel about subbies big mouth. YOu'll get about as far as I did. If you wanna whine and threaten to quit go to ladder room 2. You'll fit right in there with slotfreak and her fag boyfiend.

    
    

  • Re: Hey subform guess what? I quit !!! View
      by ThreeDT on July 22, 2003 at 21:35:50 PDT
    
    Sorry bud,

    I do not cry and whine to managers like yourself before going to the person at question first to try and resolve things, and besides that, you dont think that the managers will read it anyway? why the hell do you think i said "this should be in the rules"? Secondly when i say "quit" im sorry to upset you but I dont refer to the ladder.

    As for me being greedy and selfish - this is totally incorrect. I was in front of sub when he led the 8h (you dont think i saw that the two high went under it?) Now my effort to give sub more points there and take the next trick he leads was silly & dumb but i would describe it as more "risky" than anything else.

    NYpipefitter you the only one being negative here, I'm trying to be constructive thats all.

    GL2U

    ThreeDT

    : LEt me be a bit harsh on you. YOu don't like the fact that you got greedy and subform said something to you. I said something to you too and I dont even like subform. The guys an arrogant lump if you ask me. He plays pretty much for himslef and thats about it. You think your the first person to get lambasted by subdork? pfft, catch up to me will ya.

    : But I'll tell yuo this. You had the chance to not only stop subform but also make yourself about a 13 point favorite for low. To me that was the dummest thing Ive ever seen especially since subby was showing you all the way that he was protecting high cards. I'll admit any of the three of us could have took that hearts trick but none of us did. If I or patton take that heart trick we become high while you stay low. Lowman is a game best played when everyone is close. By forcing you to cover the moon we keep you close in the score making it possible for anyone to win in the last hand. Thats when this game is fun.

    : But you got greedy. You choose to make a stand and attempt to run away with the score while you expected us to cover your perverbial butt. Patton choose to keep a high heart instead of a low club last card and I would have done the same thing. Theres backs on the cards, you do realise that dont you?

    : As for the being harsh on you. You come on this message board and cry and whine "I'm quitting" Thats your answer for solving a problem? Your quitting. Go ahead and quit then. I won't miss ya and I'm sure no one else will either. If you want a resolve to the problem contact the mangers and ask them how they feel about subbies big mouth. YOu'll get about as far as I did. If you wanna whine and threaten to quit go to ladder room 2. You'll fit right in there with slotfreak and her fag boyfiend.

    
    

  • Re: Hey subform guess what? I quit !!! View
      by NYpipefitter on July 22, 2003 at 19:24:06 PDT
    
    Where's the delete button on this thing?
    

• Re: Hey subform guess what? I quit !!! View
    by subform on July 22, 2003 at 15:39:44 PDT
  
  gosh.......patton and pipe should be the ones to respond to this since hearing it from them may make you appreciate it more. Unfortunately i did not keep full track of scores that game as i normmaly wouldbut heres my best recollection of scores ...pipe and patton can clarify them hopefully.

  We were tied at 65 or 62 patton was in eighties 82 i believe and i have no clue where pipe was...i believe high 70's or higher. The key point is this....I ate q and then lead a mid heart and you were joint low(in fact you were now sole low as i ate 13) and you have last play...the others duck the heart because they are high in pts especially patton...why should he take 4 more to reach 86 when you are on 65??/..

  All you needed to do was take 4 hearts and then lead back if you wished and stick them...but no you duck....and leave me with trick thereby paving the way for me to moon. (note: since it was not obvious heart high moon i will forgive you for not noticing that i was playing for moon. ) Yo should have been paying attention to how i was running my cards though.

  As for patton not holding the club that could have stopped... I can't say wheteher he intentionally dropped the two clubs to let me moon or not. It was not a case of him seeing me play clubs and him ducking them. It was a case of me only having one left if you recall and i ran all my diams first so i doubt he even knew he could have stopped me until too late as i was running flush diams and he held a high heart as last card to stop me.

  Yes i buffed you because if i was one of those other two players i would have buffed you. I don't like to win games like that and especially not lose them like that.

  The point is once again you could have stopped moon easily right after i ate q but you choose to duck and force one of the two high players to cover which is not good play. If they are close in pts sure but not when there is almost 20 pt differential between you and them...thats plain selfish.

  One other thing....at no point during the hand till i tell them not to cover moon or what to play to let me moon.....all i said that it was bad of you not to cover and try to force them to.
  Only when the clubs were all dropped did i say that had i been in pattons position i would have dropped them too even if i had known they could stop moon. As stated before i doubt patton even knew they could have stopped moon as he seemed to be hoping his high heart could as last card.

  The moral of the story is take 4 pts and stop moon yourself..you obviously had low hearts to relead and stick them if you wished to afterward but don't expect highs to cover for you ( i for one will certainly never cover unless i'm sure second low. Ask pipe or patton what they thought of your play....then get back to me.

  The game was going pretty good up to that pt but as often happens once piece of selfishness frucks it up. Heck i am selfish at times...it's all part of strategy..but when something is that clear you should do the right thing..it's only means 4 pts or a little more ..worse case you take 13 with me and that was not going to happen with your cards... but you stayed selfish and let me moon.

  I still look forward to playing you in the future (with the hope that the situation will arise again and a better play would be made) As for challenges ummm i have not challenged anyone in 4x4 in years... I also won't sit at a tbl where you at already unless it's ok with you first. As you noticed i have been quiet on 1x1 and 4x4 and thats primarily because there are 3 players i absolutely will never play again...it's too late for apologies from them. I simply stay away from tables where they are at and if they come to a table where i am at, once i did not call the game i will leave. The reason i withdrew from 1x1 is because rather than having to leave in the middle of the tourney and screw up the tourney and give them a win by forfeit(which i detest) i simply will no longer play in the tourneys once i see them in room because recently they have been joining the tourneys.

  It was not fair of me to continuously be asking rc if any of the players signed up. It's solely my decision not to play them...i don't ask anyone else not to play them so i just stay away from where they are..

  three i hold no grudge against you and again i'm sorry if i offended you but i caanot promise that the same thing would not happen again if the situation arose again. If you chose not to play me because of that then it's your choice....i don't want you to make that choice as i do enjoy your strategies for the most part.

  Once again i think you should ask pipe for his opinion on the matter because he is here for a long time...(mind you he is a bit clueless ha ha)_...patton may not say too much because he is new in the game as well.

  thats all for now...
  

  • Re: Hey subform guess what? I quit !!! View
      by rat_1 on July 22, 2003 at 16:04:46 PDT
    
    I have on occasion mooned to win screwing low and high....but then I am a rat so what ya expect? I believe I beat sub twice yesterday so I think Ill go out and buy a lottery ticket......

    Three.....although I was not in the game or saw it for that matter, you gotta watch ole subbie like a hawk.... he is sharp. For the longest time he passed me moon hands left and right for the sole reason that he knows how I pass and would know I would cover my passes and not be able to moon. Then I change my pass strategy and pass sub moon passes, which screws him up for one, maybey two games then he is on to me again. This way he and I both have no clue how the passes go. Sometimes I pass him trust passes sometimes not.....we have been at this game a looooong time.

    This is an intellectual game (especially lowman). come down, or go up to sub's level and play the way he plays, think how you would play his hands...watch him, then youll find it not so hard to play him.

    As far as the talking...well I could care less how sub talks in the game only for the simple fact that I believe the hand, and hands, are determined long b4 or weather anyone talks about them during, when you play as many games as we have its like playing an old friend you know what he is gonna play b4 he does.
    He is really fun to watch (dont let this get to your head you old fart)and for that matter watch heart bomb's play and hawks and gamey's and luna's, and casey's... and the slew of other oldtimers...they all have a style.
    play as much and as often as possible!
    These fellows/Ladies and youll learn from the best.
    Love da rat

    : gosh.......patton and pipe should be the ones to respond to this since hearing it from them may make you appreciate it more. Unfortunately i did not keep full track of scores that game as i normmaly wouldbut heres my best recollection of scores ...pipe and patton can clarify them hopefully.

    : We were tied at 65 or 62 patton was in eighties 82 i believe and i have no clue where pipe was...i believe high 70's or higher. The key point is this....I ate q and then lead a mid heart and you were joint low(in fact you were now sole low as i ate 13) and you have last play...the others duck the heart because they are high in pts especially patton...why should he take 4 more to reach 86 when you are on 65??/..

    : All you needed to do was take 4 hearts and then lead back if you wished and stick them...but no you duck....and leave me with trick thereby paving the way for me to moon. (note: since it was not obvious heart high moon i will forgive you for not noticing that i was playing for moon. ) Yo should have been paying attention to how i was running my cards though.

    : As for patton not holding the club that could have stopped... I can't say wheteher he intentionally dropped the two clubs to let me moon or not. It was not a case of him seeing me play clubs and him ducking them. It was a case of me only having one left if you recall and i ran all my diams first so i doubt he even knew he could have stopped me until too late as i was running flush diams and he held a high heart as last card to stop me.

    : Yes i buffed you because if i was one of those other two players i would have buffed you. I don't like to win games like that and especially not lose them like that.

    : The point is once again you could have stopped moon easily right after i ate q but you choose to duck and force one of the two high players to cover which is not good play. If they are close in pts sure but not when there is almost 20 pt differential between you and them...thats plain selfish.

    : One other thing....at no point during the hand till i tell them not to cover moon or what to play to let me moon.....all i said that it was bad of you not to cover and try to force them to.
    : Only when the clubs were all dropped did i say that had i been in pattons position i would have dropped them too even if i had known they could stop moon. As stated before i doubt patton even knew they could have stopped moon as he seemed to be hoping his high heart could as last card.

    : The moral of the story is take 4 pts and stop moon yourself..you obviously had low hearts to relead and stick them if you wished to afterward but don't expect highs to cover for you ( i for one will certainly never cover unless i'm sure second low. Ask pipe or patton what they thought of your play....then get back to me.

    : The game was going pretty good up to that pt but as often happens once piece of selfishness frucks it up. Heck i am selfish at times...it's all part of strategy..but when something is that clear you should do the right thing..it's only means 4 pts or a little more ..worse case you take 13 with me and that was not going to happen with your cards... but you stayed selfish and let me moon.

    : I still look forward to playing you in the future (with the hope that the situation will arise again and a better play would be made) As for challenges ummm i have not challenged anyone in 4x4 in years... I also won't sit at a tbl where you at already unless it's ok with you first. As you noticed i have been quiet on 1x1 and 4x4 and thats primarily because there are 3 players i absolutely will never play again...it's too late for apologies from them. I simply stay away from tables where they are at and if they come to a table where i am at, once i did not call the game i will leave. The reason i withdrew from 1x1 is because rather than having to leave in the middle of the tourney and screw up the tourney and give them a win by forfeit(which i detest) i simply will no longer play in the tourneys once i see them in room because recently they have been joining the tourneys.

    : It was not fair of me to continuously be asking rc if any of the players signed up. It's solely my decision not to play them...i don't ask anyone else not to play them so i just stay away from where they are..

    : three i hold no grudge against you and again i'm sorry if i offended you but i caanot promise that the same thing would not happen again if the situation arose again. If you chose not to play me because of that then it's your choice....i don't want you to make that choice as i do enjoy your strategies for the most part.

    : Once again i think you should ask pipe for his opinion on the matter because he is here for a long time...(mind you he is a bit clueless ha ha)_...patton may not say too much because he is new in the game as well.

    : thats all for now...

    
    

    • Re: Hey subform guess what? I quit !!! View
        by ThreeDT on July 22, 2003 at 19:15:04 PDT
      
      Thanks for both your replys,

      Sub you missed my point completely (The facts and scores of any of these games is irrelevant in my point), and rat your close but no cigar. Your right, the talking in the middle of hands will not change them ! But will it change others players strategy and how they play them?

      And to both of you subform & Rat, I don't need to keep learning, I know how to play lowman so give it up before I put the *ratsack* out and stop pretending that your all high and mighty.

      Sub thanks again for you post, You dont need to aks me about playing playing a game with me (it wont happen). You will have right of way though - I'll have to leave the table. Unfortunately as I said, it must be a clash of playing styles and/or personalities.

      And once more for the dummies - this should be in the rules !
      "DO NOT TALK ABOUT CARDS DURING A HAND ! WAIT UNTIL THE END OF A HAND TO MAKE COMMENT ON CARDS."
      This is my opinion and I am entitled to it - it cannot be changed. It's a matter of etiquette or morals if you like.

      ThreeDT

      : I have on occasion mooned to win screwing low and high....but then I am a rat so what ya expect? I believe I beat sub twice yesterday so I think Ill go out and buy a lottery ticket......

      : Three.....although I was not in the game or saw it for that matter, you gotta watch ole subbie like a hawk.... he is sharp. For the longest time he passed me moon hands left and right for the sole reason that he knows how I pass and would know I would cover my passes and not be able to moon. Then I change my pass strategy and pass sub moon passes, which screws him up for one, maybey two games then he is on to me again. This way he and I both have no clue how the passes go. Sometimes I pass him trust passes sometimes not.....we have been at this game a looooong time.

      : This is an intellectual game (especially lowman). come down, or go up to sub's level and play the way he plays, think how you would play his hands...watch him, then youll find it not so hard to play him.

      : As far as the talking...well I could care less how sub talks in the game only for the simple fact that I believe the hand, and hands, are determined long b4 or weather anyone talks about them during, when you play as many games as we have its like playing an old friend you know what he is gonna play b4 he does.
      : He is really fun to watch (dont let this get to your head you old fart)and for that matter watch heart bomb's play and hawks and gamey's and luna's, and casey's... and the slew of other oldtimers...they all have a style.
      : play as much and as often as possible!
      : These fellows/Ladies and youll learn from the best.
      : Love da rat

      : : gosh.......patton and pipe should be the ones to respond to this since hearing it from them may make you appreciate it more. Unfortunately i did not keep full track of scores that game as i normmaly wouldbut heres my best recollection of scores ...pipe and patton can clarify them hopefully.

      : : We were tied at 65 or 62 patton was in eighties 82 i believe and i have no clue where pipe was...i believe high 70's or higher. The key point is this....I ate q and then lead a mid heart and you were joint low(in fact you were now sole low as i ate 13) and you have last play...the others duck the heart because they are high in pts especially patton...why should he take 4 more to reach 86 when you are on 65??/..

      : : All you needed to do was take 4 hearts and then lead back if you wished and stick them...but no you duck....and leave me with trick thereby paving the way for me to moon. (note: since it was not obvious heart high moon i will forgive you for not noticing that i was playing for moon. ) Yo should have been paying attention to how i was running my cards though.

      : : As for patton not holding the club that could have stopped... I can't say wheteher he intentionally dropped the two clubs to let me moon or not. It was not a case of him seeing me play clubs and him ducking them. It was a case of me only having one left if you recall and i ran all my diams first so i doubt he even knew he could have stopped me until too late as i was running flush diams and he held a high heart as last card to stop me.

      : : Yes i buffed you because if i was one of those other two players i would have buffed you. I don't like to win games like that and especially not lose them like that.

      : : The point is once again you could have stopped moon easily right after i ate q but you choose to duck and force one of the two high players to cover which is not good play. If they are close in pts sure but not when there is almost 20 pt differential between you and them...thats plain selfish.

      : : One other thing....at no point during the hand till i tell them not to cover moon or what to play to let me moon.....all i said that it was bad of you not to cover and try to force them to.
      : : Only when the clubs were all dropped did i say that had i been in pattons position i would have dropped them too even if i had known they could stop moon. As stated before i doubt patton even knew they could have stopped moon as he seemed to be hoping his high heart could as last card.

      : : The moral of the story is take 4 pts and stop moon yourself..you obviously had low hearts to relead and stick them if you wished to afterward but don't expect highs to cover for you ( i for one will certainly never cover unless i'm sure second low. Ask pipe or patton what they thought of your play....then get back to me.

      : : The game was going pretty good up to that pt but as often happens once piece of selfishness frucks it up. Heck i am selfish at times...it's all part of strategy..but when something is that clear you should do the right thing..it's only means 4 pts or a little more ..worse case you take 13 with me and that was not going to happen with your cards... but you stayed selfish and let me moon.

      : : I still look forward to playing you in the future (with the hope that the situation will arise again and a better play would be made) As for challenges ummm i have not challenged anyone in 4x4 in years... I also won't sit at a tbl where you at already unless it's ok with you first. As you noticed i have been quiet on 1x1 and 4x4 and thats primarily because there are 3 players i absolutely will never play again...it's too late for apologies from them. I simply stay away from tables where they are at and if they come to a table where i am at, once i did not call the game i will leave. The reason i withdrew from 1x1 is because rather than having to leave in the middle of the tourney and screw up the tourney and give them a win by forfeit(which i detest) i simply will no longer play in the tourneys once i see them in room because recently they have been joining the tourneys.

      : : It was not fair of me to continuously be asking rc if any of the players signed up. It's solely my decision not to play them...i don't ask anyone else not to play them so i just stay away from where they are..

      : : three i hold no grudge against you and again i'm sorry if i offended you but i caanot promise that the same thing would not happen again if the situation arose again. If you chose not to play me because of that then it's your choice....i don't want you to make that choice as i do enjoy your strategies for the most part.

      : : Once again i think you should ask pipe for his opinion on the matter because he is here for a long time...(mind you he is a bit clueless ha ha)_...patton may not say too much because he is new in the game as well.

      : : thats all for now...

      
      

      • Re: Hey subform guess what? I quit !!! View
          by subform on July 22, 2003 at 21:01:18 PDT
        
        Three !!!! The last thing i want is for you to fell the need to avoid me..so i will try this again....first off never mind pipes words..he is a little strange and can be very nasty. slot if you read this along with any other 1x1 players from ladder two ..i also apologise for pipes words..

        Now three back to the game.... At no point during the hand did i tell anyone not to cover or what to play.... my only comment was that it was not nice of you to duck and leave them to cover....

        If you consider that tbl talk and won't play me becuase of it then fine thats your choice.... I have always been a talker thats my nature i talk crap about myself i joke around ...i'm not here to sit all quiet at a table ...nor do i tell others what to play when it can affect the hand.

        The point was that you ducked when you could have covered instead of trying to force the highs to cover for you. that was a selfish and ultimately bad play.

        I still wish to play you but if you expect me to remain silet then it's not a good idea to play me i guess :(
        
        

        • Re: Hey subform guess what? I quit !!! View
            by NYpipefitter on July 24, 2003 at 14:36:03 PDT
          
          I can be nasty??? LOL now thats the pot calling the kettle black. I learned it from you. MY comments were made as such because self pitty boy there was crying about quitting. In the sense he was unclear of what he ment by that. While he is clearly unclear of how lowman is played around here. So in that maybe cry baby is right. Maybe there should be a rule that lowman is responsable for covering moons. LMAo how rediculous does that sound?
          
          • Re: Hey subform guess what? I quit !!! View
              by rat_1 on July 28, 2003 at 13:11:11 PDT
            
            Clearly he was unclear...... on a clear day you can drink everclear to clear your mind... clearly.

            : I can be nasty??? LOL now thats the pot calling the kettle black. I learned it from you. MY comments were made as such because self pitty boy there was crying about quitting. In the sense he was unclear of what he ment by that. While he is clearly unclear of how lowman is played around here. So in that maybe cry baby is right. Maybe there should be a rule that lowman is responsable for covering moons. LMAo how rediculous does that sound?

            
            

    • Re: Hey subform guess what? I quit !!! View
        by ThreeDT on July 22, 2003 at 18:56:24 PDT
      
      : I have on occasion mooned to win screwing low and high....but then I am a rat so what ya expect? I believe I beat sub twice yesterday so I think Ill go out and buy a lottery ticket......

      : Three.....although I was not in the game or saw it for that matter, you gotta watch ole subbie like a hawk.... he is sharp. For the longest time he passed me moon hands left and right for the sole reason that he knows how I pass and would know I would cover my passes and not be able to moon. Then I change my pass strategy and pass sub moon passes, which screws him up for one, maybey two games then he is on to me again. This way he and I both have no clue how the passes go. Sometimes I pass him trust passes sometimes not.....we have been at this game a looooong time.

      : This is an intellectual game (especially lowman). come down, or go up to sub's level and play the way he plays, think how you would play his hands...watch him, then youll find it not so hard to play him.

      : As far as the talking...well I could care less how sub talks in the game only for the simple fact that I believe the hand, and hands, are determined long b4 or weather anyone talks about them during, when you play as many games as we have its like playing an old friend you know what he is gonna play b4 he does.
      : He is really fun to watch (dont let this get to your head you old fart)and for that matter watch heart bomb's play and hawks and gamey's and luna's, and casey's... and the slew of other oldtimers...they all have a style.
      : play as much and as often as possible!
      : These fellows/Ladies and youll learn from the best.
      : Love da rat

      : : gosh.......patton and pipe should be the ones to respond to this since hearing it from them may make you appreciate it more. Unfortunately i did not keep full track of scores that game as i normmaly wouldbut heres my best recollection of scores ...pipe and patton can clarify them hopefully.

      : : We were tied at 65 or 62 patton was in eighties 82 i believe and i have no clue where pipe was...i believe high 70's or higher. The key point is this....I ate q and then lead a mid heart and you were joint low(in fact you were now sole low as i ate 13) and you have last play...the others duck the heart because they are high in pts especially patton...why should he take 4 more to reach 86 when you are on 65??/..

      : : All you needed to do was take 4 hearts and then lead back if you wished and stick them...but no you duck....and leave me with trick thereby paving the way for me to moon. (note: since it was not obvious heart high moon i will forgive you for not noticing that i was playing for moon. ) Yo should have been paying attention to how i was running my cards though.

      : : As for patton not holding the club that could have stopped... I can't say wheteher he intentionally dropped the two clubs to let me moon or not. It was not a case of him seeing me play clubs and him ducking them. It was a case of me only having one left if you recall and i ran all my diams first so i doubt he even knew he could have stopped me until too late as i was running flush diams and he held a high heart as last card to stop me.

      : : Yes i buffed you because if i was one of those other two players i would have buffed you. I don't like to win games like that and especially not lose them like that.

      : : The point is once again you could have stopped moon easily right after i ate q but you choose to duck and force one of the two high players to cover which is not good play. If they are close in pts sure but not when there is almost 20 pt differential between you and them...thats plain selfish.

      : : One other thing....at no point during the hand till i tell them not to cover moon or what to play to let me moon.....all i said that it was bad of you not to cover and try to force them to.
      : : Only when the clubs were all dropped did i say that had i been in pattons position i would have dropped them too even if i had known they could stop moon. As stated before i doubt patton even knew they could have stopped moon as he seemed to be hoping his high heart could as last card.

      : : The moral of the story is take 4 pts and stop moon yourself..you obviously had low hearts to relead and stick them if you wished to afterward but don't expect highs to cover for you ( i for one will certainly never cover unless i'm sure second low. Ask pipe or patton what they thought of your play....then get back to me.

      : : The game was going pretty good up to that pt but as often happens once piece of selfishness frucks it up. Heck i am selfish at times...it's all part of strategy..but when something is that clear you should do the right thing..it's only means 4 pts or a little more ..worse case you take 13 with me and that was not going to happen with your cards... but you stayed selfish and let me moon.

      : : I still look forward to playing you in the future (with the hope that the situation will arise again and a better play would be made) As for challenges ummm i have not challenged anyone in 4x4 in years... I also won't sit at a tbl where you at already unless it's ok with you first. As you noticed i have been quiet on 1x1 and 4x4 and thats primarily because there are 3 players i absolutely will never play again...it's too late for apologies from them. I simply stay away from tables where they are at and if they come to a table where i am at, once i did not call the game i will leave. The reason i withdrew from 1x1 is because rather than having to leave in the middle of the tourney and screw up the tourney and give them a win by forfeit(which i detest) i simply will no longer play in the tourneys once i see them in room because recently they have been joining the tourneys.

      : : It was not fair of me to continuously be asking rc if any of the players signed up. It's solely my decision not to play them...i don't ask anyone else not to play them so i just stay away from where they are..

      : : three i hold no grudge against you and again i'm sorry if i offended you but i caanot promise that the same thing would not happen again if the situation arose again. If you chose not to play me because of that then it's your choice....i don't want you to make that choice as i do enjoy your strategies for the most part.

      : : Once again i think you should ask pipe for his opinion on the matter because he is here for a long time...(mind you he is a bit clueless ha ha)_...patton may not say too much because he is new in the game as well.

      : : thats all for now...